Maria Dolgopolova: I’d like to add a small remark here. I belong to a different generation. I’m a 33-year-old clinical psychologist, and I also graduated from Moscow State University in 2013. I remember how long it took me to realize that there wasn’t any psychotherapeutic process in the USSR. It seems I heard this information from different sources several times before I could believe how much was missing. These things existed in Europe, America, and maybe elsewhere, but they were absent in our country for a very long time. Certain branches of psychology related to individual consciousness did not develop. Probably the final realization for me was when my father passed away and we found archival documents. He was part of a scientific laboratory that dealt with psychology.
Elena Novikova: Nifont was a member of the coordinating council of the association we later created.
Maria Dolgopolova: Yes, and I understood that psychoanalysis, gestalt therapy, and all these approaches, even CBT, were somewhere in the West and lived their own lives. It wasn’t until 1991 that they started appearing and coming to the country. When we started discussing this topic yesterday, I was once again struck by what you shared about the time when Russia became Russia and opened up. Despite knowing this information, it still surprises me every time. So, I’d really like you to tell our listeners a bit about how things changed in 1991 when everything started to open up. What changed?
Elena Novikova: Sure, I’ll skip over some details, but I’d like to ask the listeners to respond in the comments if they want to hear this story. For me, it’s still a question I haven’t answered. On the one hand, as we write the book, we meet with colleagues who are as old as I am, and we reminisce about the past and their fates, which developed in Russia, Europe, or the United States. Many of the first 100 members of the Association of Practical Psychologists, which we created in 1989, live and work abroad—about 30% of them. They have different fates and remember the past fondly. But I still wonder if this is interesting to the current 30- or 25-year-olds.
One of our coordinating council members, Boris Masterov, who now teaches at Shanenka, invited his students to some of our meetings, and they were absolutely thrilled. But these were isolated instances. So, please let us know if you want to hear this story or not.
Because it is interesting. It’s not only interesting factually, but also conceptually. Practical psychology emerged at a time of a profound change—ideological shifts, changes in international relations, the collapse of the Soviet Union, shifts in the approach to personality, and major changes in medicine, education, sports, and philosophy. By the time our association was established, there was a ferment in society. Books that we translated were penetrating into the country. Moreover, I now recall that one of the first significant events in this direction was the visit of Viktor Frankl, who came to Russia in 1986 and gave a lecture at the university. That was an absolutely fantastic event for everyone, a great gift. Then a whole series of such visits began. Frankl came in early spring, and in the fall of 1986, Carl Rogers arrived. Carl Rogers, just a few years before his death, made this gesture. He came to a country that was behind the Iron Curtain, a country associated only with bears, tanks, and forced psychiatry.
Maria Dolgopolova: But you mentioned that foreigners were very interested in coming over, and many of them did. They practically "queued up".
Elena Novikova: When we decided to create the association in December 1987, and wrote the charter in 1988, and were registered as a legal entity in 1989, by that time there were so many people wanting to come to Russia that we didn’t have enough psychologists...
Maria Dolgopolova: Why was the association needed?
Elena Novikova: That’s a good question. The association was needed for several very important reasons. Firstly, it contributed to the formation of professional identity. People began to see themselves as psychologists engaged in practical activities. At that time, practical activities were mostly related to psychotherapy, and later on, different branches emerged such as organizational consulting, school psychology—which didn’t exist before—sports psychology, and more. All of this was happening, but it wasn’t labeled. It was simply called "a psychologist." We all received diplomas that said "a psychologist, a teacher of psychology," implying we would either work in an institute or teach psychology somewhere, perhaps in a vocational school or a pedagogical institution.
Maria Dolgopolova: It was something abstract and completely disconnected from real life.
Elena Novikova: Yes. And then people who wanted—and began, and wanted even more—to develop in the field of helping professions suddenly got the title of "a Practical Psychologist." We searched for a long time for the right name.
Maria Dolgopolova: Did your association have any dreams or aspirations beyond its goals?
Elena Novikova: The second task, besides identification, was education. As soon as the opportunity to study arose—starting around 1986-87, and then Virginia Satir came in 1988, which was also a major event—crowds of people from across the Soviet Union, from the Baltic states, Siberia, St. Petersburg, and Moscow flocked to these events. People absorbed like sponges what they had not received during their education, and which was the focus of the world. We were cut off from that world.
Therefore, another crucial mission of our association was to provide opportunities for education. For three years, the association existed, and during this time, 174 world-renowned professors and scholars came and conducted workshops and seminars for us.
One interesting factor that was unique, I would say, to Russian practical psychology was that we had no specialization at all. I attended psychodrama sessions where I brought Jorn Hockberg from Bulgaria, who was Swedish, to a conference. At the same time, I went to gestalt therapy sessions led by Sigrid Pape, whom I literally found on the first floor of our psychology faculty. She came to find out what psychology was like in Russia, and nobody could tell her anything. She stood there with a red nose in December; it was very cold, and she arrived in Moscow as a tourist. Deciding to leave Red Square and visit the psychology faculty, she encountered a guard in a fur coat who said, “No! Foreigners are not allowed! You don't speak Russian!”
Maria Dolgopolova: No psychology in Russia!
Elena Novikova: Foreigners are not allowed! Sigrid kept mumbling something, just two words, “привет” (hi) and “спасибо” (thank you). Fortunately, I happened to be coming down at that moment, and since I spoke English, I warmed her up and literally took her home with me. That’s how our gestalt therapy workshops started, and she began coming regularly. At the same time, I attended transactional analysis sessions. I couldn't go everywhere, but we were all learning everything. And it was amazing.
Maria Dolgopolova: I think this was indeed a unique historical moment. You mentioned it, and honestly, I haven’t encountered anything like it elsewhere—neither in other countries nor before or after. Nowadays, contemporary Russian psychologists tend to choose a specific direction, whether it’s EMDR, gestalt therapy, psychoanalysis, Ericksonian hypnosis, or something else. But in the 90s, there was such a boom in education. People were learning everything, absorbing these new insights.
Elena Novikova: Yes, and people like Yulia Alechina and Pasha Nezhnevsky, members of our coordinating council and founders of the association, created the psychoanalysis section in Russia. They went everywhere and attended everything. We all went to see Rogers, and it was simply wonderful.
I must say that the door opened in both directions, which was also unique. The association played a tremendous role in this. Not only did we invite people to come to us, but we also started traveling. It was an incredible event when people who had never traveled outside the Soviet Union suddenly went to Amsterdam. A delegation of 20 people from the Practical Psychology Association went because they were invited by the APP. People wanted to join the association and become members of the APP. Moreover, we had several individuals; one of the APP’s membership requirements was having a psychology diploma. Two or three outstanding psychotherapists—whose names I won’t mention, perhaps they don’t want it known—were not psychologists at the time they joined us. They all obtained psychology diplomas to become full-fledged psychologists. They pursued additional education—some in addition to their degrees in biology, physics, or mathematics. They received psychological education.
Maria Dolgopolova: Does the association still have such influence in Russia now?
Elena Novikova: The association ceased to exist three years after its inception. It started in 1989 and effectively ended in 1992. I’ll explain why. It doesn’t seem like a drama but rather a unique development phenomenon. Within the association, and this was the third purpose of the association, sections started forming as we began specializing. People who initially chose between behaviorism, psychodrama, or gestalt therapy eventually made their choices. Nifont created an institute, Danila created an institute, Lopukhina and Semenov created the psychodrama section. Many sections emerged, and they began to live their own lives.
Maria Dolgopolova: Just as in the West, this became divided by approaches, with associations for psychoanalysis, for...
Elena Novikova: The cocoon gave birth to a butterfly, and even many butterflies, and all these butterflies flew away and began to live their own lives. They are living good, full, and normal lives. I hope, at least with the example of the family therapy section created by my friend Anya Varga, that the values and principles established during the association’s time remain in that family therapy section. These principles include freedom, continuous learning, constant supervision, responsibility, and a certain quality of services provided. These principles remain. I hope they still live in your community as well.
Maria Dolgopolova: Returning to the question of why history matters... Is there a risk that we are approaching another period of total closure and isolation? What do you think? I believe that understanding our past can help us predict what might happen in our future. Does our present and future, in terms of Russian psychologists, seem like it might involve a different kind of isolation, if it exists at all?
Elena Novikova: Thank you for the question. It touches on what concerns me the most right now, which is the direction our society is heading. Personally, I left psychotherapy. Back in 1991, or actually in 1992 when the association ceased to exist, and I was a member of the coordinating council responsible for international relations, I shifted towards creating my own business. For over 30 years, I led a company, first Ancor, and then Avanta, both recruitment agencies. Ancor was one of the first. I enjoyed my work immensely, and I still keep in touch with all my former employees. I’ve seen how the job market has changed, how it has completely shifted. I observe trends not only at the behavioral level but also at the organizational level and within the business and economic sectors in Russia.
I later pursued additional education and obtained an MBA from the Higher School of Economics. So, I could probably talk more about that, as it’s my field.
Maria Dolgopolova: Please do share.
Elena Novikova: Maybe another time I can delve into that. I want to answer your question now: Is practical psychology open to the world now, and does the world want to reintegrate with us? — The answer is both yes and no. Many connections that were established long ago have evolved into friendly and personal relationships. People like Semenov, another member of our group, Lena Lopukhina, and Anya Varga, who has now moved to Portugal, still maintain relationships with the teachers who visited us. They still participate in conferences and seminars, albeit not in the same numbers or formats as before. Fortunately, there’s the online format now that allows for continued engagement and invitations.
However, there have been two significant changes that affect the current trends in practical psychology.
First, we are not as desirable now as we used to be, because associations...
Maria Dolgopolova: Since 2022, or even earlier?
Elena Novikova: I believe since 2022. In fact, I know it is so. In 2022, there were still very active exchanges. Now, there is much more caution. One of our coordinating council members, an active founder of the association, Lena Cherepanova, for instance, was unable to participate in an online conference conducted by trauma specialists here because the university where she works in Boston prohibited it. Many contacts have become more complicated. Private individuals might still engage, but if you represent an organization, especially an American or European one, the organization is likely to say no, preferring to abstain and see how events develop. That’s the first change.
The second change is also quite significant. It involves the regulation of practical psychologists’ efforts. I didn’t mention another very important goal related to the association. We rushed to address social issues, almost manically. For example, we went to Yerevan a week after the earthquake there. Nifont was also involved. There were many of us. We worked...
Maria Dolgopolova: Which year was that?
Elena Novikova: I believe the earthquake happened in 1989 or 1987. I don't remember the exact year now, but that can be added in the credits. In any case, the first plane full of psychologists flew to the crisis area.
After the opposition demonstration in Tbilisi was dispersed and some participants were beaten with entrenching tools, the association wrote a harsh letter to the government, expressing that we, as psychologists, opposed such actions. This was the Soviet Union, a part of the country where we lived, and we were voicing the professional group's opinion about what was happening in our own country. Not in a foreign country, not in distant Georgia, but in our own country, because Georgia was a part of our life. There was also a demonstration dispersal in Vilnius, which was also associated with casualties, and we went there too. We worked with Afghan veterans returning from Afghanistan, dealing with PTSD and other issues. We actively participated on our own initiative. This was a spontaneous intention, either in the hearts of people or within the associations, but it was not regulated from above. There were some formats for organizing us, like creating many family and district centers, or, for example, family counseling on Pyatnitskaya Street. However, the officials who supervised us only ensured we arrived at work on time. No one was interested in how we worked, what we did, or why we were helping.
Maria Dolgopolova: There was a certain freedom.
Elena Novikova: There was an incredible freedom. It was a completely astonishing phenomenon where everything that could be beneficial was allowed.
Maria Dolgopolova: I can add a small remark about the present day: in Russia, there is still a vast amount of freedom in this narrow area because psychotherapists abroad, at least in the English-speaking world and European community, are subject to much more regulation. Psychotherapists clearly belong to associations, and their career and professional paths are moderated in a defined way. In Russia, however, you can still position yourself in absolutely wild combinations because...
Elena Novikova: A witch-psychologist.
Maria Dolgopolova: A witch-psychologist. This is a normal phenomenon in Russia. It can happen. Moreover, as a psychologist, this person can be certified according to all standards, but the fact that she is a witch is just the way it happened. And there are indeed many such phenomena, and every psychologist really creates their own way of helping and what they want to sell. This is, of course, an amazing world compared to Western countries because, in Western countries, there is more order in this regard. This is both a plus and a minus. But in Russia, this question is simply an incredible performance, a festival, and a celebration of life.
Elena Novikova: I have two comments here. The first comment is that the regulatory mechanisms we talk about, which exist in Europe and the United States, are legal and financial. From what I know from friends who have lived and worked in various countries around the world for many years, a large part of their patients, or at least half, come through insurance, which they do not pay for themselves but is covered by the state. For example, in Germany, gestalt therapy was not included in the insurance program for a long time. I don't know if it is now, but psychoanalysis is covered. These are strange financial and legal regulatory mechanisms. They also seem excessive to me. And thank goodness there is such freedom in Russia, but this freedom comes with a lack of standards. And the possibility to label oneself as a witch-psychologist, who may be much more effective than a psychologist working on behavioral issues. Therefore, it is very difficult for people to navigate this.
When I talk about the lack of freedom in the modern Russian context, what worries me, and there are very distant weak signs of this, which I hope will come to nothing, are the signs of ideological lack of freedom. You can call yourself a witch, but you have to deal with behavioral issues according to the accepted ideology. Yesterday, wearing a niqab was allowed, today it is banned, so if a client comes to you dressed in a niqab, you will say, "I won't work with you until you take it off." Tomorrow, it will be allowed again, and you will say, "Well, wonderful, let's talk; I’m fine with just the expression of your eyes." This ideological component may seep in and is slightly seeping in. Currently, psychiatry seems to be the first victim, because we are observing cases of forced psychiatric diagnosis. Recently, in Kazakhstan and somewhere in central Russia, two business owners had their big business taken away, and their managers were all put into psychiatric hospitals and diagnosed as incompetent.
Maria Dolgopolova: I understand now that among the most rigidly affected by ideological restrictions are those who have changed their gender and need medical care. And now doctors are not allowed to provide them with medical assistance. This is, of course, a huge social problem.
Elena Novikova: Whether someone has changed their gender or originally has a non-traditional sexual orientation, it's also a question of how to work with these individuals. I must pay tribute to your father, who successfully guided my friend and colleague through gender transformation. He was an adult, a father of two children, and a husband to a wonderful woman when he suddenly realized he was gay. Thanks to Nifont, the entire family went through this transition happily. Nothing was destroyed in the parental relationships, which were very traditional, nor in the husband and wife relationship, who remained soul mates. The wife remarried and has a third child now. The daughters, who were teenagers at the time, were also supported by Nifont. I doubt there are many...
Maria Dolgopolova: This is legally permissible now. Ideologically.
Elena Novikova: Yes, yes, yes. Rather the opposite. It's good that you brought up this topic because it was important. Sexology at the turn of the century was very popular. Very popular. There was the wonderful Aron Belkin who worked in this area. There was Kon, who dealt with this topic. Many authors worked on it. They openly discussed sex, which was absent in the Soviet Union. This is also a story related to the denial of the person with all their manifestations, including sexual behavior. They talked about it, it was discussed, and now it's forbidden. So, it's allowed only in terms of reproduction. Have as many children as possible, but how and with whom you do this is your problem. If there are no men around you, as they say in St. Petersburg, Governor Beglov says, "We have one man for every four women, how will we have children?"—Well, somehow. That's a personal issue. But children must be born, three or four per family. Give birth, but absolutely do not engage in raising or helping children develop.
Returning to your question, yes, we are free. We are not as constrained by regulatory structures as in the West. But this gives us the opportunity for absolute improvisation. A witch-psychologist. Shamanic practices for curing enuresis. — Sure, that's easy. Yes, yes, yes. Psychological mindset for wealth. We all know how to do that. I don’t know if there’s such noise in other countries, but I hear there is. From my colleagues and friends living there.
